Even fans were able to create better versions of why Teldrassil burned down. She destroyed Undercity so Forsaken lost their home. Is this how you take care of your subjects if you are loving and caring?
I think not. And with her actions, millions of souls from the whole cosmos are going right into the Maw for eternal suffering. And why? Because she was scared. Because instead of thinking about herself and trying to change, she rather schemed with the god of death… who was responsible for her misery.
And yet, after all this, after mass genocide, destroying souls, millions, maybe billions of souls are suffering because of her… and there are still people who are able to say that she has a good heart and doing this to save us all.
I have a question… would you still love her if she was a man? Or decomposing undead? If she would be ugly? I bet she would be already killed or hated by the majority of the community at least two expansions back.
Why Garrosh had to stand trial for war crimes and Sylvanas is completely fine in the eyes of the community? He was at least consistent to his very last moment and suddenly, I like him for that.
But I am fed up with the fact that majority of her community keeps excusing what she does just because she is a sexy elf. Or they remember how they loved her in Warcraft III and they ignore what she does now.
This is not a character I can respect. I want to respect a character even they would turn into something ugly, but still love them for who they are, for their personality. Is the answer yes? You will love her no matter how she would look like? The world is still alright. Glad to have you, guys this is not sarcasm, seriously, bless you. You love her because you think that she has a good heart and she is sending millions of souls into hell because she wants to help us?
Take your pills and think twice before going on date with a manipulative person who will use you, beat you but will tell you they love you so much while cheating on you. You live in a delusion. And you love the delusion. And you should seriously think if you love the character if you need to change it that much in your mind and closing your eyes and ignoring red flags to keep loving her.
I want to love them because they are evil and doing evil stuff. And for sure, I really would not swallow if they would get redemption. Or became inconsistent. Such an antagonist would be ruined for me.
And that takes me to…. Many people told me, Blizzard would not give her redemption arch. They are not gonna do it. She is beyond redemption, she is an antagonist, period. Guess what, they did. The cheapest way possible. Blizzard kept telling us everything will make sense in the end, why she did all these things.
But it did not. And it only confirmed my greatest fear: Sylvanas is an inconsistent character since Cataclysm. They have no clue how to write her. They are walking in a fog, unable to see through. For more than 10 years. Sylvanas was afraid of going to the Maw. So she got an amazing idea.
That guy must be pretty ok. Oh, wait his job is to torture souls? So when Jailer gets all he wanted, ofc he says that he will remake all reality and everybody will serve. I will never serve! And suddenly she sees he is a bad guy. And then, Jailer gives her half of her soul back… So… this is the explanation? She was doing all this because she was not whole? Is this an excuse for genocide? Now we will all feel sorry for her? And how come he got her good part of the soul when Uther, even split got to Bastion?
Was her second part not judged and sent… IDK to Maldraxxus? Because I think she would go there, she never gave up, she was resolute. Right now it looks like that this split soul lore was made specifically to give her redemption arc. Because Blizzard loves her so much that they are scared to handle her as they should: as an antagonist.
I am saying this all the years and I will say it again: the Ebon Blade is order full of those with a fate like Sylvanas. The whole order. Multiple characters suffered under the Lich King like her, lost themselves, were made to kill their friends, their families. And they, too, took revenge on him. But instead of going crazy and trying to hurt everybody because they were hurt, they tried to help and protect people.
Maybe they are missing part of their souls too. But are they running around, burning innocents, committing genocide? Mostly because their leader is somebody with a strong moral compass We Ride Forth confirmed I write him correctly all these years and caught his vibe just right, bless you Robert Brooks and sense of duty to keep them in line, but also because they are just not egoistic and selfish. So please, there is no excuse, she was aware of what she was doing. It was her choice.
You can be depressed and hurt to the very core and still decide not to be a homicidal maniac. Another annoying thing is, Blizzard kept telling us she is a master strategist and she is highly intelligent. Would a highly intelligent person try to help somebody responsible for her suffering?
Being ok with them? There was not shown how come she is ok with the Jailer! Look I thought she is smart but after the cinematic, she does not look like that. Yes, it can be shown in the book but… I am really curious how this big mess will fall in place and create something meaningful and logical. To show that she is still consistent somehow. Anyway, good luck with that, Christie Golden.
What was her plan anyway? I was hoping he will dump her and kill her. That would be the only ending fitting for the character. There always must be something behind, some explanation why they are like this. Why they had to make her a victim? Suddenly I like Garrosh because he was an asshole but he was consistent. He had a good ending even with an awfully low-budget cinematic. Sylvanas was made an antagonist.
She was supposed to end like that. If Sylvanas had an issue with them creating it, she probably wouldn't have used it in virtually every situation she wouldn't get caught. Sylvanas and the Forsaken have by and large been evil since vanilla. The problem now is that she's stupid and evil. It was pretty obvious that Sylvanas knew about the Royal Apothecary because their experiments were out in the open and Horde characters were used to help with some of the plague testing.
She treated the Forsaken as an extension of herself and was the micro manager from hell so there's no way they would have pulled that off without her knowing. I mean, there was Warden Stillwater running the Sludge Fields doing experiments on humans and forsaken, which went unnoticed.
I don't think Sylvanas had that much of a grip on what some of the Forsaken were up to. It's been ages since I did Howling Fjord, but I seem to remember Sylvanas actively giving orders to attack Alliance outposts and use plague on them. I could be misremembering though.
Even if she wasn't responsible for Wrathgate though I was always under the impression that she knew what the Royal Apothecary Society was up to and then threw them under the bus later , she was still more than happy to torture innocents. Ya seriously she has always been a piece of shit after Arthas died. She has always been manipulative and evil.
A questline that proved to be for fucking nothing at all because she's evil even to her loyalists. At this stage even a single line of dialogue acknowledging you as her loyalist would have been appreciated, I don't want a full-blown quest chain, just something to show that my choice had a ripple in the game.
There was no point whatsoever for the loyalist side or the separatist side. After playing the game for a while I've kind of gotten to know how the story works and how self-contained it normally is so I knew there wouldn't be anything massive following the conclusion of BfA. I would have thought something would have happened with the prepatch and killing Nathanos but when that didn't happen I knew for a fact we weren't getting anything else.
It's a shame, such a big shame. They played the story so fucking safe, even giving your character a get out of jail free card if they sided with Sylvanas. Just imagine how cool it would be if Sylvanas had different lines of dialogue like Gul'dan did in Nighthold, mocking loyalists for believing in her or apologising to them for stringing them along, and afterwards the quest dialogue when you turn in the quest to defeat her to Bolvar has him questioning his faith in you and contemplating whether more death knights should watch over her in case you try something.
Instead, nah, we just get a safe play where our choice ultimately didn't matter and the story progresses regardless with us as the Champion-Hero Walker of Azeroth. Tl;dr - Sylvanas could have been like Gul'dan in the raid with different dialogue depending on who you sided with in the War Campaign, but Blizz played far too safely.
Kerrigan was an even bigger deal to the Starcraft lore and they completely fucked her over. It's just what they do. Im Before the Storm her character is presented in a way that you wouldn't believe is her.
She felt so vulnerable, fragile. Like a child left alone, all on herself. I don't know what to thunk about it, but your feelings about those character are also mine, and are shared by a large amount of people. It's just sad what has l of this come to. I don't mind Sylvanas being evil and she clearly is.
It's the utter stupidity and cryptic, inane dialogue that I hate. A good villain should entertain but she's so boring on screen. All I see is wasted potential and the story contorting around an undeserved redemption arc. I don't care for super deep lore or writing which has never been a strong point for WoW and has never needed to be. I'm here for entertainment and humor of which the silly dialogue between Lady Moonberry and the Cudgelface delivered this week.
The main story of Shadowlands has none of this. It's not even cool. It's just dumb. Honestly I would've been fine if they just wrote her out of the story after wotlk. Her chracter arc from wc3 was complete and one of the best character arcs in warcraft lore imo. I never really understand why they came up with her "my people can't reproduce so now we have val'kyr raising new forsaken, btw they also prevent me from dying" story in cata.
I never really had the impression she cared for her people or their preservation as a faction. If you felt something from her saying that, you really didn't understand her and how the Horde felt about her. She's been being misused from a story perspective for almost 3 expansions now. Rule of Cool over rational actions or logic. Yeah, it was really stupid. Sylvanas suddenly gives a fuck about something other than Sylvanas but not really?
Ok so I guess blighting Gilneas, kidnapping Koltira to re-educate him, and enslaving Eyir are totally acceptable then? She's been loathsome since Cataclysm she just doesn't have fanboys running damage control for her anymore. You can enjoy a villain. Joker is probably the most popular DC character despite being completely evil. Yeah, I was talking about trailer, it was the time we were still told that this burning doesn't seem how it seem.
Story wise, the Lordaeron battle happened after the burning, but I believe the Lordaeron cinematic came out a while before we knew that the tree would get burned.
That's what I mean, people reacted to Sylvanas positively when that cinematic came out because they did not yet know the depraved lengths blizzard would go to ruin her character. Lol, is it a favorite pastime of yours to misinterpret my comments and put words in my mouth? I simply pointed out that the traits op mentioned are still valid for the character.
Talk about cringe… get off your high horse. I was pointing out facts about the character. If you want to play the pronoun game, at least put forth some effort. At NO point did the person you are responding to try and "explain to other people what their feelings should be", he was just pointing something out.
You jumped to an incredible conclusion. I can see where he is coming from. The OP doesn't actually explain any of his reasoning, just saying "I liked her for x, y reason but now shes chaaanged".
You need to take some of your own advice, bud. You couldn't even understand OPs original comment, lmao. You might be thinking of a different Sylvanas.
Her being an unlikable and mistrusted character has been in the game for much longer than Legion. There's nothing vulnerable about someone who knows that in order to populate her race other people have to die - something her allies and enemies have always known.
Did you skip cataclysm? She was monster even there. She starting production of hazard weapon, she even then was bigger monster than Garrosh. I love her ruthlessness. The cinematics leading up to BFA gave me chills. I wish her voice actor could read me bed time stories! I wish they would have done things differently.
For a long time, I had a problem with people who talked about how great Arthas was, because he'd only ever been cruel, as far as I could tell. I didn't play Warcraft, but I've familiarized myself with the lore and I've seen play-throughs of the games. When the recounting of Arthas' treatment of Sylvanas is that he inflicted every possible torture on her, it's easy to hate him. What I knew of Sylvanas was that she was morally gray, but entirely justified in her cause and her inability to let go of wanting to make him suffer for what he had done to her.
I say this in terms of fiction; it's healthier to let things go and try to move on, but there are no therapists in Azeroth. At least, not that I'm aware of. All of the things she has done in the last two expansions has made me like her less, and I wish she could go back to being the Sylvanas who missed her sisters and protected her people. I agree, Coming from legion where both factions joined forces and directly worked together to fight the burning legion and then turn around and wage a faction war was quite preposterous.
But I thought they did a really good job of turning her into this absolute badass female horde ruler even tho some of the actions she took were reprehensible they did a good job of amping you up for a war with the cinematics. And the voice actor fits so perfect! It's becoming a shining example of an article I read in the past. A game scenario writer talked about how art assets typically take a while to make so not including them in the story ends up being a big waste.
So these writers are forced to come up with a story that uses all of the art assets that were made. I can only assume the teams brainstormed and created assets about how the afterlife might be, and now that Metzen and the lore department either left or were fired it's some junior writers being told that everything that came up in the meeting has to be in the story some how.
So everything is disjointed and barely makes sense because if your job is plating every dish at the end of the line at a restaurant and all the cooks do is give you plates of colorful shit you can only dress it up so much. RNG is shit, the grind is shit. New World coming out too on the side. Kinda rant, wall of text. Like I was happy for her in Wotlk that she is done with burden and "killed herself", chick needed moment of peace in life if she died fir real at this point. In cataclysm "bitch scene" I was like: ok animating people against their will is kinda bad, manipulating them is terrible but she probably did this to have extra manpower during Gilneas siege.
Kind aunderstandable war decision in fantasy world I guess But then we have this quest where she dies again and holy crap that was weird and unneeded, I felt annoyed, let this woman rest ffs.
Then cataclysm continues and tbh its not bad because it shows her as leader who infiltrates battlefield herself and interacts with her people even if she tortured Koltira for disobeying. Not perfect but cataclysm left me bit excited for her chaotic actions. Boom, Pandaria hits and I was super angry at Garros placing Sunreaver spy under Aethads command, leading to another Ally vs Horde open conflicst and massacre in dalaran.
For some reason later during siege of orgrimmar Sylvanas travelled with Lorthemar and Aethas, flirted with lord regent during Galakras boss fight??? But she was never in good terms with garrosh in first place. In the end, death claims us all. But the Horde will live on. Vol'jin is dead.
Who among you will help me avenge him? Just broken shore scenario was instant respect and affection when she just took dying Vol'jin and fulfilled one of his last wishes "do not let da horde die dis day", her Valkyr helped evacuate remaining horde forces and they fleed to safety. She even blew battle horn to cominucate with her soldiers and Alliance. That scene made me adore her and I was super proud of being part of horde.
From unlimited army of demons, hemmed with injuired leader and limited amount of manpower. I still think thats this is wrong and Sylvanas used horn to announce retreat from lost battle. So at moment of Legion I'm like child with super wide grinn, watching their favourite cartoon in tv, when I look at Sylvanas.
Like she impressed me, had cool mysterious duel with Genn who is probably one of last alliance leaders i felt sympathy with , bargained with Helya, became Warchief and was super kind to horde player "champion" and treated you as trustworthy. But after BfA cinematic it all goes downhill for me. Like you slowly stop smiling when you see someone you respected, do something you really dislike. She's been more and more untouchable and cogs in my head started working and connecting threads about her being new Mary Sue poster girl since Jaina turned into crazy old lady.
Then teldrassil burnng comes and I'm like "ok this is ultimate display of power, super brutal like Theramore but I guess this is War and it probably was super tactical action to break NIghtElves and stir friendship and loyality in Alliance This is true for me, personally. She has been a strong pillar in the game for a long time now, and as someone who thoroughly does not like her character, I just want her gone. But a good villain does make the overall mood and atmosphere of the game different, see Wrath of the Lich King for more details.
I liked her from wc3 and up to wrath. She seemed very strong and cunning, with good reason to be the way she was. I thought amongst all things she and the forsaken would just be misunderstood and have some virtuous goals like survival and making their world a better place.
Then cata came, and she started using blight at every conflict lazy way to win. Instead of being a good anti-hero, they made her an insane dislikable character. Um, yes. You are right. I knew that 15 years ago, as did anyone else who played an Undead through the starter zone.
Not necessarily in that order. She destroyed two entire cities, blighted her own troops, and raised them as Scourge 2. It still stings.
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